This is stop number…umm… one of them on R.R. Virdi’s Virtual Book Tour, organised by SFF Insiders’ wonderful friend Adrian M. Gibson (author of Mushroom Blues). If you’ve read any of my SFF Insiders reviews, you will already know that I’m not what the kid’s call ‘professional’ in my approach to things. Thankfully, because I have wormed my way into Boe and R.R. Virdi’s good graces, they let me do this interview in anticipation of The Doors of Midnight, the powerhouse, knock-out sequel to The First Binding.

So, without further ado, read on and find out what’s waiting for us behind The Doors of Midnight.

SFFI: First question, can you briefly sum up the books? They’re like 1400+ pages so where did we go in The First Binding and where are we going in The Doors of Midnight?

R.R. V: I can give a short primer, yes, but a lot of the book is written in a way that if I give away too much, spoilers might become apparent. In book one, we watch Ari in the past have his personal family life be upended through tragedy and take to the streets as an orphan, quickly inducted into a family of petty thieves. He undergoes betrayal, loss, and falls into a trap that helps set him up with a choice: to stay, or leave and pursue higher education, and magic, at the fabled Ashram. From there, he grows in his understanding (or so he thinks) of magic, until news forces him to rush out to chase rumors of the demons of his past. He ends up fulfilling one of his legends or horrors depending how you look at it.

In the present, he’s presenting as a traveling storyteller in a foreign country, experiencing some xenophobia all while trying to earn room and board while falling in love slowly with a mysterious songstress. She recognizes him potentially as the source of legends and he begins to tell her his tale all while navigating his mission to kill a prince.

For book two, read and find out ;)

SFFI: Following on from that, can you tell us about the overarching theme of the Tales of Tremaine series. What we’ve got from TFB and DoM, maybe what’s to come if you’re feeling generous?

R.R. V: One of the themes is most certainly that every story is important, they all matter, and there are secrets hidden in them. That stories are sadly mutable - truths shift, and it’s worth taking the time to get to know the whole story.

SFFI: Book two picks up where book one ends in both regards, Ari's past and present, how far ahead do you see the two coming to meet? What is the timeline we're following?

R.R. V: I can’t tell you the time between past events and present. If I wanted to do that, I would have. And there are reasons for it. But, we’re picking up with some serious immediacy following the events of book one’s past and present as you said.

SFFI: But eventually we will see the timelines meet, right? His past has to eventually become his present…right?

R.R. V:  There will be tying up of the past events to the present, and I know where I’ll choose to do that already, assuming I get to write the full series (fingers crossed). There might still be one period of intentional gap, and I’m already committing to that now intentionally with the idea of what I want to do with that gap separately :)

SFFI: This is a world weaving folklore from around the world and some real-life things, like the silk and golden road and the crusades and nomadic cultures. Where do you start and how do you choose what elements are going into where? How much research goes into the books? Sorry, that’s three questions in one.

R.R. Virdi: I’ve seen some authors like to work backwards from events such as designing a university system from today or present events scaled backwards. I like to go to as far back as I can. So, for example, Nalanda, was a South Asian university, and in fact, the world’s first residential one. I chose that as a model for designing the specific Ashram along with the variety of things studied. A lot of my worldbuilding comes from myths, stories of the past, true and false, and some actual technological inventions. You’ll see some of those in certain wind harnessing towers in book two that were inspired by actual structures that people don’t know about unless they study Middle Eastern architecture and inventions. The amount of research I’ve had to do has been painstaking, but it’s also been an utter joy.

SFFI: That is huge. How do you even know where to start? Is it just a matter of researching what you already know and then finding something new that strikes you or is it a blind rabbit hole of searching ‘Cool stuff from the ancient world’?

R.R. Virdi: It’s a mix of a few things, but I’ve studied (and still do) enough mythology (particularly the epics from as many cultures as I can, and then the works they’ve inspired up to the modern fantasy genre) and distilled down to what I could out of certain similar arcs, beats, tropes, and goals that I wanted to do this meta commentary and reflective series on. It’s in conversation with the history of fantasy as well as mythology from multiple cultures, but through a south asian (predominantly) lens as, one, it’s my culture, and two, it’s an early cradle civilization that contributed so much to storytelling and the arts that it makes perfect sense for me to focus there.

Tolkien for example used the Norse Eddas as well as the Finnish Kalevala, and English poems. A lot of the beats, themes, arcs, even character names come straight from them, however, he interpreted that through his own personal lens and created for Britain a new mythos at a time everything was heavily Arthurian influence. I definitely leaned toward that direction in: what can I do with mythology and fantasy through a lens I know and can comment on, and then share my love of: story foundry, comparative mythology, and comparative storytelling/techniques.

SFFI: This book, we have Monkey King, Schezerade, Ali Baba, a tale that wholly felt like the balcony scene in Aladdin, probably more that I’ve missed. What was your favourite myth/folklore to weave in? What would you have liked to weave in but didn’t have the chance? How are you choosing what folklore or aspects from known folktales are you deciding to keep and sprinkle in? Again, sorry for the multi-question question.

R.R. Virdi: Oh, boy. My favorite is hard to pick. Every nesting story exists specifically because I love mythology as a whole, especially comparative mythology. The Monkey King has been shown to have such inspirations from Hanuman out of South Asian mythology, likely carried over through the spread of Buddhism, which we know influenced a lot and traveled far in the world. Indra for example out of South Asian mythology is worshiped and acknowledged in Japan. Buddhism was the vehicle to bring him there. 1001 nights has contributions from South Asian stories. Tales of Tremaine is doing something very similar in incorporating shared mythos and spinning them new, but familiar, in a meta reflective and commentary work about storytelling traditions, beats/plot points, tropes, characters, and more.

I actually got to weave in everything I wanted in the initial draft which was 450,000 words, so about 100,000 more than book one, or another full completed average fantasy novel’s worth of length. Sadly, we had to cut about 70,000 of those for printing reasons. I’ll probably find a way to incorporate those bits into later or side projects.

SFFI: Will any of those side projects feature a story about Immi? Please say yes, because I just love her. But more importantly, 70k is basically a book in itself. How did you manage to cut another book worth of words?

R.R. Virdi: Yes, Immi, as well as other characters (forgotten and overlooked, or some fans are theorizing are still around) will get their space in stories. I promise.

SFFI: As I said above, there are probably more easter eggs I’ve missed. In fact, I definitely missed but with all the hints and clues and sprinkles of hidden meanings, what’s been the best reaction so far? Has there been any response that made you Grinch grin ear to ear because they got it? Obviously without giving away too much of a spoiler.

R.R. Virdi: yes. :) Some I’ve seen publicly starting to grasp some of the secrets I really hid. It’s been a joy to see people starting to really question, google search myths, or theater structure stuff, or fantastical tropes. I’m enjoying the heck out of it.

SFFI: Have there been any reactions that you thought ‘Oh damn, I didn’t think about that when I wrote it.’? I know I’ve approached you on my theories about Eloine and because you’re a sneaky, smouldering fiend, you will neither confirm or deny.

R.R. Virdi: So far, no. But I think in part that’s because the series is rather young in the timeline of fantasy series. Book one only came out two years ago and during the end of the initial covid restrictions that carried on since 2020. Some cons were still closed, some places were still enforcing certain things, and at the time, I’m sure there was some intimidation in approaching a novel as big as this asking this level of commitment from people.

SFFI: Actually, talking about fan theories, what have been your favourites?

R.R. Virdi: Jim Butcher would break into song here and go: “I’m not gonnaaaaa telllll youuuuuuu.” Imagine me doing the same.

SFFI: You can’t hear my angry huffing but it was there. How many fans do you think I could get to fight you for this? I can think of at least four that’d back me.

R.R. Virdi: I’m not sure, nor the optics of fan-fighting, but, uh, I suppose you’ll know that better than me.

SFFI: Because I’ve mentioned you’re a sneaky, smouldering fiend, who between you and Ari has the better smoulder? “I don’t smoulder.” Yes, you do. Now answer the question.

R.R. Virdi: I don’t smolder. Also, Radi. Not Ari. Radi is the king of smolder, preening, and prince of pretty.

SFFI: Ari feels a lot more petty than Radi. Student surpassing the teacher, maybe? (R.R. Virdi did not respond to this one. Which is normal especially when winding him up about his smoulder)

SFFI: Nitham is just awful, and I hate him.  There's no question.  I'm just letting you know.  Please have that opinion from me.

R.R. Virdi: He is absolutely awful and represents a common trope in fact of the usually wealthy and empowered nobility in youth. There’s a trope called: Barons are evil (usually applied to them because they’re a part of nobility more easily in reach to people or characters in fantasy since they have smaller holdings than a king. You can see the abuses laid out by those with wealth and class privilege to examine in classical stories through a baron). We have seen this played out in some old epics, tales, poems, and works that feature magical academies.

Ged/Sparrowhawk and Jasper in Earthsea. Or Harry Potter and Malfoy. Wealth and youth sometimes leads young men to becoming cruel. Nitham isn’t an exception. Though, it’s important to remember Ari has antagonized him back. Both are suffering from being hot headed young boys.

SFFI: Ok onto the actual book now. There’s a scene where Rishi Ibrahm is listing the students’ qualifications for attending his very small class. Most have bound an element. What is the difference between mastering the bindings like Krisham and Immi, vs binding an element?

R.R. Virdi: Well, a good portion of that is detailed by the conversation with Rishi Ibrahm and Ari, but an element is a force of nature. It has a nature. Something to consider. Nature is not always immutable, and sometimes it is. It’s as complex as a person, sometimes more so. And in a system as numinous and subject to variations in belief as the bindings, that adds a whole host of new variables and struggles to consider. So, in short, infinitely more complex and thus harder to attempt. Also, binding say something like a pillow to do something isn’t likely going to harm you much. But fire? That can hurt you before you meddle with its nature. So what then when magic is brought into a very destructive element?

SFFI: Oh! Speaking of Rishi Ibrahm. I loved the scene where he just accosts students asking how far they’ve come. He’s a lot of fun in this book, and just overall there’s more humour in this than TFB - so what was the most fun to write for DoM? I know that’s kind of a cliché question, but I was getting weird looks for gigging on the bus at various times while reading this.

R.R. Virdi: Shola most definitely. There was a lot more of him in the original draft. Ari’s catharsis scenes are always, and I mean always, a pleasure. As well as writing some of the heartache and suffering as well.

SFFI: It’s probably a little ridiculous that when Ari goes away, to anywhere to do anything, I’m worried about who’s watching Shola. So when you explicitly have him ask someone to watch Shola, on behalf of other crazy cat-people, thanks for that. It’s a lot less stressful.

R.R. Virdi: Ari will never let shola go unsupervised (I mean uncared for) for too long a time. He has his priorities right, and Shola knows this. The order of importance in universal concerns are:

Shola, Shola’s food, Shola’s sleep (being undisturbed), Shola’s attention (whensoever he requires it and otherwise not at all), then Ari can concern himself with whatever that Shola hasn’t really bothered to keep up with. So, so far that’s all been met to our fiery feline overlord’s satisfaction. Or, I suppose his contentment, which is just a shade below true satisfaction. But Shola understands the limits of humans to meet any metric of success. He doesn’t blame us for it.

SFFI: Ari is extremely versatile and clever. He fits into everywhere so why did he bind fire and not something fluid like water? I also realise the implication of this would be that Shola isn’t fire coloured and a blue cat would probably raise some eyebrows.

R.R. Virdi: There’s a lot behind that question, and some of it is psychological stuff I’ve laid in that might become more apparent in read throughs. Some are tied to symbolism. Others to myth. Me answering that might very well cheapen a lot of layers.

SFFI: Ok so going back to a fan theory. I’ve chatted about this with a few other arc readers. Krisham talks about going “away” and there's doors of midnight and Tarun Twiceborn. Ari bears a resemblance to many of his stories in The Doors of Midnight. Is Ari telling his own tales that are other versions of himself? Like with all the tales about him that he’s cultivated and let spread further, is he now just an unreliable narrator to his story?

R.R. Virdi: There are a lot of spoilers in this so I’m just going to nod that I’ve read the question, and then discuss the weather, which is rather hot today. It’s a particularly humid and merciless 95 degrees here which sadly I cannot convert to celsius on my own due to the patriot chip implanted in all Americans these days. I’m constitutionally incapable of violating the temperature units of F  - Freedom units.

SFFI: Damn, I tried to avoid spoilers in that question. And 95F is 35C, but yes, it is very hot in both the rest of the world and freedom units…maybe not the southern hemisphere cause it’s winter there.

SFFI: I feel like having mentioned ‘other versions’ it might be good to pause here and, if you’re happy to, take us through how the Virdiverse – yes that’s what we’re calling it – is connected. We have Tremaine which we see from DoM has different realms, your historic cover Reed Lions story, you of course have Grave Tidings which is probably entirely different. What is happening in the Virdiverse and how much is connected?

R.R. Virdi: That also is somewhat of a spoiler, but book two certainly opens some metaphysical considerations for things on a universal/cosmological scale for this series of course, and perhaps all of my other works. That’s a very good question :)

SFFI: Right back to this particular corner of the Virdiverse. Without being a HS English teacher about it, I have a few questions about the animals in Termaine. Why sparrows and crows? Do they have significance over other birds? Also tell us about the owls. With the Maathi, and without too much of a spoiler, why a dog? If he’s curious and clever, not something like a cat or fox?

R.R. Virdi: Symbolism is really important in my works, and especially in South Asian culture. The subcontinent itself is home to a staggering amount of biodiversity and animal life. Thus, over the ages, all variety of animals have played a significant role in storytelling. I did a thread recently showcasing the research of experts in the field of how it’s theorized nearly 30-50 percent of western folktales/fables/fairytales originate from a few collections of south asian “fairy” or wonder tales. This is especially argued for the talking/magical animal styles of fables we see often in the west. So, I’ve definitely chosen things with this mind for various reasons. One thing I can give away is the sparrows in book one are also located in the heart of my Mutri empire, a visibly very pseudo India analog. What some might not know is one of India’s many nicknames was the Golden Sparrow. And we just might see an association with gold…and sparrows in book one. :) (Please note, this is R.R. Virdi’s version of a hint.)

SFFI:  think you’ve said you see the series being a hefty number of books so at the moment and as you see it now, will our Ari have a happy ending or a satisfying one?

R.R. Virdi: The ending of Tales of Tremaine (for the whole series) might not be written in stone literally, but as close to that as possible, in that I actually have the very last page and a half written on my computer. That will not change. Perhaps the wording specifically, but not the intent or results. How Ari gets there is a little open for fun and it’s how I write. Key plot points will still happen. It’s some of the in between roads chosen to get there that will undoubtedly change. I personally am very satisfied with the current projected ending. I believe readers will be too if we get to take the journey that far to the full series conclusion!

SFFI: Final question. Please imagine this like the start of Who Wants to be a Millionaire except there isn’t really a right answer and I’m not paying you money directly - but I will buy your books. For fans of Tremaine, where can you point us next while we wait for the next installments and ruminate on the ones we have? What authors, books, movies blah blah blah would you recommend to us with the same sort of vibes?

R.R. Virdi: Well, one series I think doesn’t get enough attention and is a grandmother to a great deal in fantasy is Ursula K. Le Guin’s Earthsea series. Three Thousand Years of Longing is structurally similar and it’s a beautiful middle eastern story I think everyone should watch. I’m going to direct a lot of people back to classic epics like: Rostam, Homer’s works, the Prose Edda, Mahabharata, Ramayana, the Puranas, and then things like Canterbury Tales, the Decameron, and as many wonder/fairy tales as you can find because you’ll find the inspiration from nesting stories (structurally) from a lot of those (not just South Asian ones - look to Panchatantra and the Jatka Tales for those). Authors I’ve particularly enjoyed: George R.R. Martin as his universe continues to unfold in a manner I adore through stories and accountings/rumors/tales - such as Fire and Blood (told through the accounts of Septons, Maesters, and fools), a portion of which is currently being adapted as House of the Dragon. For pacing and a focus on political issues, Daniel Abraham’s Long Price Quartet is a forgotten masterpiece that went completely overlooked and I still think is nothing short of brilliant. And, of course, The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafon.

R.R. Virdi will be back on SFF Insiders tomorrow with his list of 5 Famous Temptresses Across Myths. You can also see his interview with SFF Insiders reviewer Julianna Caro on her YouTube channel on 30 July! 

Be sure to catch the other Virtual Blog Tour events to come! 

Pre-order from these stores to get signed copies and/or a bookplate while supplies last.

R.R. Virdi is a two-time Dragon Award finalist, Nebula Award finalist, and USA Today Bestselling author. He is the author of the urban fantasy series The Grave Report and The Books of Winter, as well as the epic fantasy novel The First Binding. His love of classic cars drove him to work in the automotive industry for many years before he realized he’d do a better job of maintaining his passion if he stayed away from customers.

He was born and raised in Northern Virginia and is a first generation Indian-American with all the baggage that comes with. He's offended a long list of incalculable ancestors by choosing to drop out of college and not pursue one of three pre-destined careers: a lawyer, doctor, engineer. Instead, he decided to chase his dream of being an author. His family is still coping with this decision a decade later. He expects them to come around in another fifteen to twenty years.